Posting at VK's latest map thread a few days ago I suggested a way the mino could be edited to be more balanced and not have such a big impact on gameplay. With my only experience being just having browsed most of the retail ONS source files (and several other custom vecs from ppl's maps) for months to try and better understand how the game works, yesterday I thought I might try my hand at doing this myself.
After a few hours of compiling and testing, the result is this and I think it's now workable enough to present. While there's a full description of the vec in the archive itself, basically the gist of it is this:

- Mino cannon is now tied to a charging meter and the shells you fire can range in damage, blast radius and momentum transfer from goliath-like (quick shot) to 90% oldschool mino deadly (full charge). Meter takes 8.5secs to max out, so the driver can't keep spamming death every 3 secs now (meaning, you can pummel nodes from afar, but not suppress 'em as easily anymore). I'm trying to work a slow meter depletion element in the code for when the mino's not being driven (player jumps outside to heal or switches to turret),but for some reason the game ignores it. If anyone can tell what I'm doing wrong here, I'd be happy to hear from 'em.
- Minigun turret removed, laser turret damage boosted up to 170hp/sec (i.e. worse defenses against land vecs and peds, tougher against flyers).
- All damage type immunities removed, bio blobs do 300% damage from 500%.
- Some other tweaks.
- For now, looks and sounds like the original mino (I am not a skinner). Any suggestions on this are welcome.

The point of this experiment is, hopefully, to get ppl here to try this edit out offline or in new maps on TechCom and get a convo going on everyone's impressions that will eventually let us hone in on what we conclude to be the best configuration WE can tolerate for a supertank - a supertank that won't smash gameplay to pieces with a giant hammer, that is.
Another point I want to make clear here is, I'm not trying to prove that with my first attempt I've bested or outsmarted other UT vec modders with years of experience. I managed to do this only because it was easy enough for a beginner (admittedly, with some programming experience) to do, but even trying showed me there's still several Uscripting aspects I've yet to fully grasp. To this end, I welcome any and all comments from other coders and hope they'll lend a hand in improving the/this mino with us.

Anyway, that's it for now... enjoy?



PS: Almost forgot: for offline testing, simply place the various resources to their proper UT subdirs and summon the vec from any map ingame with "summon Eurotaur.Eurotaur". I'd recommend something like ONS-MinusTankMeUp-IonEdition.

Very good job, i tested it out. It's more balanced but still 2000hp:p

Anyway thanks for the effort i use it on next version of reichstag.

btw, i try to edit the skin;)

Edit:

First try skin:





edit:









:p

Number two and five looks best.

BTW I am not sure if it is good idea to make laser turret on mino more powerfull than it is now.

pegasus_ wrote:
I'm trying to work a slow meter depletion element in the code for when the mino's not being driven (player jumps outside to heal or switches to turret),but for some reason the game ignores it. If anyone can tell what I'm doing wrong here, I'd be happy to hear from 'em.


Same issue as with the Railgun tank (post #18 and following)?:
http://www.gametracker.com/clan/freelancer/forum.php?thread=45763&cfrmpstspge=2#cfrmpsts

Oh, that issue. The problem is, FireCountdown is only reduced while the weapon is active, i.e. there's a driver.

MaWa, the thing about the mino's turrets is, their combined damage output is one of the highest among all ONS vecs (200 & 111 vs peds, 300 & 167 vs vecs), so when replacing those 2 with a single, omnidirectional turret, it should still retain some kind of stopping power (mostly because of ground vecs). 170 seemed reasonable to me, but if ingame trials prove it to be too much against raptors and cics, that can always be changed. Still, as I mentioned, keep in mind the single turret approach cuts both ways, i.e. the gunner gains a bit here but loses a bit there. What I mean is, if the eurotaur gunner has to deal with 2 ground threats from different directions, he's gonna have a tougher time taking 'em out, not to mention doing so without giving away the mino's position with the lightshow.

Just for argument's sake, I took the long route to this and did some more research on ONS hitscan turrets damage. Below you'll find a list of all stock and most custom turrets' damage stats found at TechCom, which might even surprise you for a couple of entries:

moo wrote:
===============================
Hitscan Turrets Damage (hp/sec)
===============================

-vv: vs. vecs
-[A-B]: min,max value

firetank laser: 12/0.18=67 (150%vv -> 100)
wyvern lasers: 22/0.25=88 (150%vv -> 132)
bio laser turret: 30/0.33=90 (150%vv -> 135)
turret lasers: 30/0.3=100
phoenix lasers: [12-15] 13.5/0.133=101
dragon main laser: 120/1.0=120
cicada lasers: 25/0.2=122.5
centaur lasers: 33/0.30=110 (150%vv -> 165)
kraken #3 laser (MagicIsle): 18/0.18=100 (150%vv -> 150)
goliath minigun: 17/0.1=170 (36%vv -> 61)
minigun turret: [20-25] 22.5/0.15=150 (75%vv -> 113)
mino lasers: 20/0.18=111 (150%vv -> 167)
railtank mini: [29-31] 30/0.22=136 (60%vv -> 82)
kinghellhound laser (MagicIsle): 25/0.2=122.5 (150%vv -> 184)
dragon #3 minigun: 14/0.1=140 (weakens over distance)
badger mini: 15/0.1=150
hurricane lasers: [35-55] 45/0.2=225
mino minigun: 20/0.1=200 (150%vv -> 300)
armadillo minigun: [45-55] 50/0.1=500 (36%vv -> 180)
armadillo lasers: [50-70] 60/0.2=300


=========================================
Hitscan Turrets Damage vs. peds (hp/sec):
=========================================


Firetank lasers: 67
Wyvern lasers: 88
Biotank lasers: 90
Beam Turret lasers: 100
Kraken #3 lasers: 100
Phoenix lasers: 101
Centaur lasers: 110
Minotaur lasers: 111
Dragon main laser: 120
Cicada lasers: 122.5
KingHhound laser: 122.5
Railtank minigun: 136
Dragon #3 minigun: 140
AS Minigun turret: 150
Badger minigun: 150
Goliath minigun: 170
Minotaur minigun: 200
Hurricane lasers: 225
Armadillo lasers: 300
Armadillo minigun: 500

=========================================
Hitscan Turrets Damage vs. vecs (hp/sec):
=========================================


Goliath minigun: 61
Railtank minigun: 82
Beam Turret lasers: 100
Firetank lasers: 100
Phoenix lasers: 101
AS Minigun turret: 113
Dragon main laser: 120
Cicada lasers: 122.5
Wyvern lasers: 132
Biotank lasers: 135
Dragon #3 minigun: 140
Kraken #3 lasers: 150
Badger minigun: 150
Centaur lasers: 165
Minotaur lasers: 167
Armadillo minigun: 180
KingHhound lasers: 184
Hurricane lasers: 225
Minotaur minigun: 300
Armadillo lasers: 300
Still think a 170hp/sec, 1-turret vec is too much?


@Lila: I've been looking into all sorts of code, trying to find just the right bit to stea- erm, try, but so far, nothing has worked. One approach I noted that I haven't tried yet involves specifying my own function DriverLeft(), but I think it needs to be placed in the main vec's class, yet still update a float variable in the main Cannon class (LastOccupied). Here's what the example looks like: moo wrote:
function DriverLeft()
{
Super.DriverLeft();
SVehicleUpdateParams();
}Somewhere in there, I'd have to do a Moo.LastOccupied = Level.TimeSeconds; with Moo being that specific instance's child weaponclass. Just stabbing in the dark here, but is it possible to reference something like this directly through DriverWeapons(0).LastOccupied? If I found some way to do that, I wouldn't even need the game to execute vec-specific code while it's abandoned, all the calcs would be applied in an instant as soon as someone got in it again. Meh, might as well try it myself instead of describing in full detail what a Uscripting newb I am :/. So, anyway, yeah, still stuck with this one.


@VK: Most of these look cool; the 4th one especially reminds me of some of the later C&C games' Nod vehicles. Keep in mind though, that the goal is to come up with a skin for a more toned down supertank that ppl already know (and fear), so there's a few parallel requirements players would expect to be met:
- Skin has to feel "familiar", i.e. be a departure from that of the old mino. Something totally different/new would throw ppl off.
- Mino is a very dangerous presence and its skin reflects that well (kind of how it happens in nature too ): it's as bright and flashy as possible (bright orange/teal) so enemies could spot it even through the fog and just hope the driver hasn't seen 'em first. A new skin shouldn't be too dark because that would rob enemy players of such a tactical advantage. Since it's a toned down mino, making it a bit darker would be logical, but going all the way to a full camo skin seems too imbalanced (good luck spotting something like that when flying above it in MagicIsle). Btw, don't hesitate to try something a bit more "futuristic" either (I remember one night at CEONSS jokingly suggesting some very flashy looks for new vehicles like the "iTank" or a TRON tank, etc.). Point is, you seem to have the Photoshopping chops for this, once in a while you should go nuts! Btw, rainbow coloured treads... wtf was Gorz thinking?
- Just like every other UT vec skin, there needs to be space for team colours. That's another reason why skins #2, 3 and 5 ain't that good because their colour palettes are entirely neutral & black based. Also why the bio's skin was a mistake.


Moar comments welcome.

Peg, i am using the skin with the black/red black/blue version in reichstag for now, and the skins originally come from WOt

Here is a full list of skins in .dds files.
Link:

http://www.mmorpg-center.com/world-of-tanks-custom-tank-skins

To open and edit .dss files u can use the plugin for photoshop:

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/photoshop_dds_plugins.html

Program to view:

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/tools/wtv/WTV.rar


If u can edit the normal goliath to an stronger version with 1000hp, would be nice to use in reichstag, than the mino needs 2 shots to destroy.

The last 3 skins look good, but do they fit the hull? Aren't there some pictures of wheels or another nonsense? Eurotaur sounds really weird, like a tank for Brussels officials. You can find a better name, for example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_figures

You are presenting that list to a Greek man.

Anyway, I think such a vehicle needs to be a "*taur" nonetheless. Although Perses would be fitting, but it's just that this is a Minotaur/Omnitaur-thing after all.

But if you really want to break with that name, then maybe "Hyperion" or similar.

Eurotaur name: First don't forget that technically the Minotaur (the mythology creature) is European, so it should be those American who should change the name of their Minotaur.

Also, the tradition is to normally use the name of an animal.

On the other hand has it is "simply" a variation of the Minotaur, no need to go into complex stuff, Eurotaur is fine, you could use TechTaur or whatever to reflect it is the variation used on TechCom.


You could also go for a realistic name such as "SlightlyLessButStillOverpoweredTank"


Turret: I won't speak about other )o( turrets (as everyone probably knows my love for those vehicles), regarding regular ONS turrets, you also need to consider that most of them are either:
- not mobile
- without zoom or a zoom of that magnitude
- not combined with a vehicle that has 2000 of armor and has a main gun that can quickly suppress any threat around


A good test to do also is to play offline, with friendly fire scale set to 1. And try and kill a few things.
Here is a quickly made Torlan-Eurotaur (base HBs replaced with Eurotaurs) .

Try and kill a bit of everything. Given the possible flying patterns and the zoom, I am pretty sure that a Raptor has almost 0 chance to come near the Eurotaur if the gunner sees it and aims a bit decently.

Well, anyway, I'd better stop here, you got the idea.




A bit off-topic, but while on the topic of overpowered vehicles and names, the Theseus (i.e. the Minotaur slayer) name is already reserved for a slightly boosted and flying variation of the Leviathan.


Never finished it (and probably never will). A previous variation had the rear turrets drop bombs (SPMA shells actually) which was probably better.


Goliath at 1000 Hp, just extend ONSHoverTank and have:
Health=1000
HealthMax=1000
as default properties.